PKR vice-president Rafizi Ramli is no stranger to controversies. He is well-known for a series of exposés that had contributed to the downfall of BN in the 14th General Election (GE14).
Recently, he made headlines again when he decided to go for the party’s deputy presidency, which is currently held by his traditional rival Datuk Seri Mohamed Azmin Ali.
In an exclusive interview with the New Straits Times Press, he shares with Rohaniza Idris and Syed Umar Ariff four things he is offering in the upcoming party polls, which include remaining as a loyal partner who can work with Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim.
Question: Why are you going for the No. 2 spot?
A: I have spent four to five years working and assisting PKR candidates outside Selangor and states where Pakatan Harapan did not win (in previous general elections), such as Perlis, Kedah, Perak, Negri Sembilan, Melaka and Johor. At the end of the 14th General Election, my friends said I should go for the deputy presidency as they believed there were two schools of thought in PKR. I am actively working at the grassroots level, and my approach is different than that of Azmin, who was leading the Selangor administration previosuly. I am offering myself for the post based on the issue of how PKR should be managed in the future.
Q: Some are saying that it is because you are ambitious.
A: Many do not understand the origins of PKR. During the reformasi period in 1998, the majority of the PKR leadership involved youth, including me. We were corporate men, professionals and activists. After 20 years, our way of thinking has gone beyond politics. We are thinking about the vigour of friendship with the grassroots leadership. As we got closer, they requested I run for the No. 2 spot. It is something difficult for me to turn down.
My willingness is not about power or political ambitions. It is more about my work approach and style that complements the leadership of (incoming party president) Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim. At the same time, there is a group which believes Azmin is the right match for Anwar.
Q: Has Anwar given his blessings for you to run for the post?
A: PKR is not a party dependent on the leadership’s blessings, unlike Umno. Anwar’s views are his and party members should respect that. Anwar and the current president, Datuk Seri Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail, know that they can neither interfere nor openly declare their support for a candidate because that will influence voting patterns. It is set in PKR that one member equals one vote.
Although there are two schools of thought in the party, a contest is to be celebrated. I admit that there is a discussion between me, Anwar and Dr Wan Azizah. But it is something personal and does not need to be made public. What is important is that party polls this time around will be a healthy contest and fair to candidates.
Q: Do you think announcing candidate teams for the polls will create divisions in the party?
A: The view that having running mates will lead to division is outdated and influenced by the legacy of Umno. A lot of people forget that PKR is not Umno.
In the last two or three years, PKR has had a disagreement about how we would move forward to face GE14. One school of thought, which is identified with me, believed that we must strengthen PH by remaining true to our ideals of a multiracial party.
The other school of thought is associated with Azmin and his team — Zuraida (Kamaruddin), S. Sivarasa and Tian Chua — that we must avoid three-cornered fights and it is important to get closer to the so-called Malay axis. That PKR had to move closer to Pas and away from PH.
These schools of thought brought contention in the party. But instead of breaking PKR, what happened after GE14 is PKR got stronger and we all focused on our areas of expertise.
We didn’t split, in fact, we got stronger. So, I don’t see any reason not to continue being clear with what we offer to voters.
Q: Some are saying that the postings of your picture with Dr Wan Azizah are a “tongue-in-cheek” way of campaigning.
A: The people and party members can judge. They will evaluate me through campaigns, arguments, plans and ideas. If we are confident with this zeal of a new Malaysia, we must be confident with people’s ability to make the right choice.
Q: What do you have in store for party members?
A: I have four offerings on the table for the party polls.
Firstly, a loyal partner who can work with Anwar, since he will become the next prime minister. He has been shouldering reforms for 20 years and the grassroots should evaluate his potential No. 2 well.
I have a working relationship with Anwar and we are close to each other.
Secondly, I offer my efforts to strengthen PKR and PH’s political position. I will continue to campaign at the grassroots level as if we are not the ruling party in states that we have yet to win.
Since I do not have any position in the government, I have more time to strengthen our machinery. We need to plan now and cannot wait until GE15.
Thirdly, the need for us to hold on to our idealism so that the new responsibilities, power and space in Putrajaya will not erode us. We need to manage legacy issues left by Umno, in terms of feudalism, patronage, abuse of public position to build political influence, interference in appointments that are seen as lopsided and disrespectful of grassroots’ (sentiments).
Fourthly, I’m proposing a cooperative be set up for PKR members. This is because, for 20 years, the grassroots are the ones who had contributed to the building of PKR. Many of them suffered, especially during the reformasi days.
When PKR began to score wins in 2008, many of those who suffered (for the party) were not reciprocated (for their hard work and sacrifices). I believe the time has come for us to be done with being the opposition. It is time for us to set up the cooperative, which will allow us to take care of their welfare, without (imposing on) the government as I do not agree with abusing public resources like before.
We want to blaze a trail. We want to take care of (PKR members’) welfare due to their contribution. Our target is to collect RM50 million in paid capital within a year. From that, we can start offering micro-credit, help train them in businesses and help their children get jobs in the private sector.
I have the expertise, based on my background, to make it happen. I have space and time to work on it, compared with Azmin.
Q: What are your chances of winning, since you do not hold any position in the government and Parliament?
A: Well, if on paper, and if we follow old (political) cultures, it will be difficult to win like in Umno or other parties, which is influenced by (external) positions and money. This (PKR) is not like that.
I have high hopes that party members will provide space for a contest of ideas to take place. Based on that, I have my advantage and Azmin has his.
Q: Do you think that a governmental position would be an advantage as well?
A: Not really. Overall, yes, a government position will provide an advantage to anyone. But I count myself fortunate because, in the past three years, I have balanced out a few of my inadequacies because I do not have positions in the government.
Q: Some people are saying that there is a chess play by the PH leadership regarding the PKR election.
A: Yes, this is about the rumours about Azmin having links to Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad and Tun Daim Zainuddin. I cannot say this on behalf of anyone, but that is why it goes back to the first point I raised, which is, party members want loyal, faithful and hardworking leaders, who can provide an added value to Anwar.
There are arising issues, especially concerning appointments of senior ministers and cabinet members because not all of the names sent by PKR made the cut under Dr Mahathir. Hence, there are appointments that did not have anything to do with the party. While the matter is seen to be Dr Mahathir’s prerogative, we cannot avoid the murmurs down below that link a certain individual with Dr Mahathir. For example, Azmin cannot run away from being seen as being close to Dr Mahathir. Is that something to be considered as positive or a burden in PKR? This is because in PKR, the grassroots demand a (leadership) partner who is of the same heart and mind as Anwar.
Q: With Anwar poised to return to Parliament, do you think Dr Mahathir will have to immediately step down as prime minister?
A: That matter is stipulated under the consensus of PH. The consensus was for Dr Mahathir to be the seventh prime minister, Anwar to be released from jail immediately and given a royal pardon to advance his participation in politics before becoming the eighth prime minister. The timeline was not discussed (by the PH leadership).
It was never written that Dr Mahathir would serve for two years or for how many years. It was Dr Mahathir who said that he may serve only for two years.
To me, I agree that Anwar’s return to Parliament as a backbencher should not be delayed. This is because the changing of the guard should not take place drastically.
We want a free Parliament, executives to focus on administration and a free judiciary. Anwar’s return to Parliament is only natural.
It is not that when he returns as a member of parliament he will become prime minister the next day.
He can make his way into the administration and become a senior minister through a senatorship. It is not just about being a prime minister or minister.
Q: There are rumours that Dr Mahathir is grooming Azmin as the next prime minister.
A: I leave this matter to people’s opinion and perception. This is because my opinion is something else, news editors will have a different outlook and people will have a different take on this.
I do not think that it is wrong if there are views that Dr Mahathir is grooming Azmin to be the next prime minister. There is nothing wrong with that.
Q: What do you think of Dr Mahathir’s administration?
A: There are many differences between Dr Mahathir’s administration or PH governments, and the previous Datuk Seri Najib Razak’s government. We should express our gratitude to Dr Mahathir for his contribution to reigniting the people’s faith in the government. But at the same time, the road to meet people’s demands and expectations is challenging.
I am satisfied with his administration. It adheres to the platforms of our policies. But I will continue to voice out on matters relating to the price of goods and job opportunities.
We have to continue to relay our views on his administration, that although with the present hindrances, PH must be seen as working hard to resolve issues affecting the people.
Q: Do you think Dr Mahathir leads with an iron fist?
A: No, I do not think that Dr Mahathir rules with an iron fist, which means if you voice out grouses, then you will be jailed under the (now repealed) Internal Security Act or arrested if you say something that does not sit well with the government.
I feel that the way (Dr Mahathir’s) administration was back in the 1980s and 1990s, there is a change in the style and approach. So it is not right to say that Dr Mahathir is an iron-fisted leader.
If there are views on Dr Mahathir’s administration, they are not about whether he is an iron-fisted leader. They are about how fast and how many (GE14 promises) have been fulfilled.
I understand that the culture of providing cabinet members with blank cheques allows them to do everything. However, the people, PH leaders and the media must continuously criticise. I am confident that Dr Mahathir is receptive to criticisms. For example, I do not agree with his proposal to start a third national car project. But that does not mean that I am against him
We need to focus on fuel price, salaries and goods.
I feel that the disagreement does not hurt PH. Such a culture, where we advise and criticise each other (albeit constructively), must continue, even when Anwar is the prime minister.
Q: Are there discrepancies in the administration?
A: I think to be fair, it is too early to say anything about it. The cabinet was only set up in June. So it means that many of them (in the line-up) have only been ministers for a month and don’t even have officers. I would give them time. But if there are general criticisms (of the administration), I think the (relevant) ministers should explain the government’s position or stand on the matter, without attacking the opposition.
Q: Do you think that PH could meet all the pledges within the 100 days of the administration?
A: The 100-day period is over (on Friday). I feel there are some pledges that could not be met within that time frame, just like the one concerning the National Higher Education Fund Corporation borrowers. What is more important is that for the government to be seen as sincere in working to achieve the goal. If they cannot fulfil them all within 100 days, that is okay, as long as there is a plan to make it work. I would be worried if the promises were swept under the carpet if they were not fulfilled.
Q: The government is saying that it could not meet many of the pledges due to the high national debt. Can such a reason pacify the people?
A: The people should know about the country’s financial state. But there is a limit to how long such a reason (debts) will stand to be accepted by them. For example, if we are to enter a house with a leaky roof and broken windows, people will acknowledge that the house is in a bad state.
But if the situation persists, people will ask those occupying the house to move out. I agree that the country’s financial state must be made known to the people, but it must be done tactfully.
People would want to know with the current situation, how can we get from point A to point B? If we are to be prudent, how do we do it? This is for people to be fair in their judgment.
Q: What is your take on the Sales and Services Tax (SST)?
A: Policy-wise, the burden of tax on the people is reduced through SST, compared with GST. SST is implemented only on 70,000 items and services, while GST affected almost 420,000 items and services. It means SST affects only one-sixth of the items and services under GST.
SST is not a multilevel tax. It does not impose a tax on profit. And when Barisan Nasional implemented GST, it only considered matters that were on paper, which says if traders can claim a refund on tax input, that will decrease the cost of business and, subsequently, reduce the price of goods.
I have warned them right from the beginning, what is on paper is not the same as the people’s way of thinking.
A trader will think that if he or she can make a bit of profit (due to GST), why not? Naturally, they will want to make more profit. That is why other countries that implemented GST saw an increase in the price of goods.
If the PH government takes into account the difference between theoretical and practical outcomes, there will be a lot of matters to be done to ensure that the price of goods will not increase. Price control or monitoring will have to be more comprehensive.
The problem now is the Domestic Trade, Cooperatives and Consumerism Ministry does not have enough enforcement officers to monitor the prices of goods.
Previously, there were efforts in place to have the people report any discrepancy, but it was not effective. The PH government must find a way to encourage people to do so. It cannot be assumed that with SST, all prices will be lower, because there will be an increase in prices of some items or services. What are the gaps that need to be bridged? The PH government must draft a clear plan about this.