Chief Minister Datuk Seri Mohd Shafie Apdal, in interview with TV3 on its Soal Rakyat programme, discusses the wave of change brought on by Sabah in the 14th general election. He also touches on the rocky road he travelled following his expulsion from Umno, writes Veena Babulal and Nadia Hamid.
Q: Parti Warisan Sabah (Warisan) is a relative newcomer and yet, went on to win 40 over seats in Sabah. What are its strengths?
A: People wanted change, not only in the peninsular but in Sabah especially. They felt a need for it. This is God’s will. It was a wave which I had predicted. This is also big change. This wave of change was there for all to see; I saw it personally as a minister when I went to the villages. The struggles of those in the lower (income) levels could be seen and felt. They wanted change not only in the administration but also the approach and implementation. I’m sure if we cannot effect this change, the people will reject us in the future. So we have to do it in accordance with our abilities as the ruling government.
Q: Do you agree that you were a factor behind Warisan’s win?
A: I am not a leader who shapes thoughts. But I am sure that the ways, patterns and forms of the former leadership had in a way convinced people to cast their votes in Warisan’s favour. I am sure the main reason was not me but the people’s wishes. They wanted change. We just helped to articulate what people wanted so that change became a reality.
Q: What are the legacy issues such as the national debt, which has made it difficult to realise pledges made in Pakatan Harapan’s manifesto?
A: First, there’s the financial constraints. We also need to change the system and administrative style and have a delivery system which meets the people’s expectations. We are confident that we can do this with time. There is also a need for a mindset change. It involves not just reforming the civil service but also the private sector. Most of us are new leaders; 90 per cent of them have never been government officers, ministers or even ministerial aides. But I’m confident that they’ll learn on their feet and help effect change. What’s important is that we understand the people, down to the grassroots. We should not make them wait too long for change. We need to find a way to increase national revenue, draw investors and plug leakages in the system.
Q: Share with us on why you were suspended and later, expelled from Umno.
A: There were many, apart from me, who had questioned the administration, especially with regards to the 1Malaysia Development Bhd (1MDB) issue. We did so with good intentions as we wanted what was best for the country. When I was suspended and sacked, it wasn’t easy for family. After I put Umno behind me, I realised that Umno wasn’t the path for me.
It’s important that we make a stand no matter how bitter the outcome. I know what happens when we ask questions not only in parliament but also in the Cabinet. There were people who did not want to sit with me in Cabinet functions after I raised the issue. They were afraid that they’d be seen by Datuk Seri Najib Razak. But that’s normal in politics.
Q: How did you face this period?
A: I held true to my intentions and prayed. I was performing my Umrah when I learnt that I had been expelled from Umno. I took it as a sign. Many do not know I was detained for eight days and was forced to sleep on the ground without a pillow, a mattress while wearing orange (lock up attire). The light was on for 24 hours. After that, I was detained for four more days. But I held on. I was accused of many things, involving hundreds of millions and billions of ringgit. Yet they didn’t find anything in my bank account.
Q: What made you set up Warisan when there were other options such as merging with established political parties?
A: (Prime Minister) Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad wanted me to join Parti Pribumi Bersatu Malaysia (Bersatu) as I was with them when the party was formed and I helped with the party’s con
stitution. But I decided to form Warisan as I felt Sabah was lagging behind. Kota Kinabalu looks beautiful but you go to the villages, there are still many who not even have water. After 60 years of independence, there are still schools without enough teachers, and ill-equipped hospitals.I told Dr Mahathir that I have to go back and serve Sabah to contribute effectively. I had to lead Sabah to make a big change. I was confident that we could make a change by setting up a new party because we knew that the existing parties were plagued with issues.
Q: You were first appointed deputy minister during Dr Mahathir’s time and was promoted by his successor. How close are you to Dr Mahathir?
A: I’ve enjoyed a close relationship with him for a long time, ever since I was a political secretary and parliamentary secretary. I took my oath as deputy minister in front of him. When I was an MP, I met him at least once a year without any appointments. We’d talk for 30 to 45 minutes on a variety of issues. As a young man in politics, I needed to know how I fared. Even during Pak Lah and Najib’s time, I continued to meet him at his office, in Masjid Negara and his home. Sometimes I even disagreed with him on some things and he accepted it. He’s someone who accepts your viewpoint if you articulate it rationally.
Q: Warisan won eight parliamentary seats and its leaders were given five Cabinet positions. Some have argued that Warisan deserved a bigger representation.
A: Some may be unhappy, but this contribution was not based on eight seats. Sabah has long been deemed a ‘fixed deposit’ and the wave of change came from Sabah, this is undeniable. The fact that Warisan is also a PH-friendly party compared to those in Sarawak was a consideration as well. Its not that we earned a small number of seats but we formed a nation despite being separated by the South China Sea, races and norms. These are the ties that bind in the formation of a nation.
Q: Among the issues that were discussed in the 14th General Election was Sabah’s perennial issue of identification cards.
A: This is an old issue. This has nothing do with Warisan as even I as an ex-minister and now chief minister do not have the power to issue identification cards. It is something that comes under the purview of the National Registration Department. But this was used by the opposition to gain the people’s attention and support. Since we have no jurisdiction on the matter, I’d rather focus on state administration matters such as basic necessities and job opportunities.
Q: The Pakatan Harapan manifesto has pledged to give 20 per cent oil royalties to oil-producing states. How are the talks progressing with the Federal government?
A: We are still discussing this with the federal government. I met the Petronas president last month and made a stand on behalf of the Sabah government and its people. They have long voiced this since the ‘70s. We also know Dr Mahathir doesn’t want us to kill Petronas. What I spoke to the (Petronas) president was on distribution, as Sabah is one of the largest contributors of the resource. The distribution as per the Sabah and Sarawak in the Malaysia Agreement 1963 (MA63) also did not involve Terengganu and Kelantan. Singapore is also no longer party to it. We know that Petronas has spent billions but as far as we know the resource comes from Sabah. With a distribution of 20 per cent, three to four million Sabahans will be happy and we can give it back to the people by building roads and giving out school aid to the state. We want the government to look at this. We are also not looking into one-off payments. Staggered payments are sufficient.
Q: Are there plans to upgrade the safety of the seas surrounding Sabah?
A: As the state chairman for security, I have been looking at this issue. There is no use upgrading facilities if people’s safety is not safeguarded. The east coast is constantly under threat. This is a major issue so I have stressed on operations in the form of surveillance. We also have to step up our intelligence efforts... these are m
atters that I have discussed with the federal government. Youngsters from Sabah also need to be recruited to security forces. They are willing to sacrifice their lives and they know the villages that need to be defended.
Q: On recruiting youths into the security forces, is this related to your long term plans to raise the socio-economic status of the people of Sabah?
A: This (recruitment into security forces) is one the things we suggested to increase job opportunities. We also suggested that we start car assembly plants in Sabah. Tan Chong Motors will set up a four-wheel-drive vehicle assembly plant here. This is because there is demand for it in Sabah and Sarawak unlike the peninsular states and its also close to the market and hence less costly.
Q: Does the Sabah government need to be given a timeline to realise efforts to upgrade the social standing and development in the state?
A: I realise that the people have pitched their hopes high on us to bring change. I, on behalf of the state, thank Sabahans for their support which has enabled us to become the administrators of the state. I know that many problems have been faced but that is no obstacle for us to state our desires and our efforts to ensure that change will come, though it will take time. However Sabah has never cancelled timber exports. That in itself is historical. We also hope that downstream industries such as furniture makers set up “IKEA” factories in Sabah. Next month IKEA will come here and I will talk to them. If the timber is exported there will be much misappropriation. So why should we export our own natural resources. If there is a downstream industry there will be more opportunities for Sabahans in woodworking.